Getting High for the 1st Time

[modblot]

Hey everyone,

So, pot has been legal now in the state I live in and I finally tried some. I'm well into my 30s and I've had some beer, but nothing beyond that. I was wondering if others could share their experiences with pot and other substances.

Since this world is fairly new to me, I'm wondering how other people handle smoking pot or and tips? I've had several great experiences, but also had several sobering moments where I got a lot of anxiety from getting stressed out thinking about the current times we live in.

Part of me wants to try Salvia after trying pot several times, since it's also legal here, but I have been warned by several people to NEVER try salvia, but these people also seem to be party people. I told one of these guys, "I'm not looking for a party experience when trying salvia," and it was like I was staring at a deer in the headlights.

Should I try salvia? What do you think about smoking pot? Anyone tried DMT?

 

[trintdaddy]

Pot is incredible. I don't smoke very often anymore (maybe once every couple of months), but I was a daily smoker for about 12 years (I'm 34). I love it, man. It absolutely changed my life for the better. I'd elaborate, but I'm feeling really lazy right now, & I'm using my phone.
Salvia... ehhh...i had an odd bad experience with it, but I know people who've had great experiences. I think I may have smoked too much.. I think it was 32x extract I'd ordered from some random herbal shop I'd found online (8 years or so). I loaded up the water bong & took 3 gigantic tokes, holding them in for as long as humanly possible. As I blew out that last hit, my entire reality & existence rolled away on what seemed to be a gigantic sliding u-haul truck door. I say that because that's the sound I heard as I lost all contact with what we call "our bodies", lol. Seconds later, or maybe it was minutes, I began feeling like it was all a dirty trick someone had played on me. Not in a paranoid way, but it was still scary. My wife told me I picked up my Fender Telecaster (electric guitar), fumbled with the jack, & attempted to plug it in. This apparently took a few minutes. Then, I'm told I started trying to play (i can play.. been at it for almost 20 years), but it was straight trash. A lot more happened, but I can't find the words to describe any of it. When I merged back with my body, I noticed my water bong had been knocked over. For some reason I thought this was the funniest shit I'd ever seen in my life, & I laughed harder & longer than I did the first time I smoked weed. It slowly faded away from there.. I'd say the whole experience lasted 10-15 minutes. It's worth trying if you're looking to become a psychonaut. However, I wouldn't expect any life changing revelations like you'd possibly receive from DMT.

DMT is great, but you might want to experiment with some lesser psychedelics before you jump into that pool. I'll try to jump back on later tonight & shed some light on my experiences.

Take it easy, & good times, friend!

 

[modblot]

<strong>Sorry for the long post here...</strong>

Thanks! I have actually smoked salvia twice now, 10x extract. I had a watcher and it was pretty intense. The first experience was incredible, but very scary and humbling. I wrote down the entire trip about 10 minutes after it ended, I'll copy/paste it here for anyone else interested in salvia:

<strong>
1st Salvia Trip</strong>
I took a big puff, sat down, my sitter asked me if I was starting to feel it, and even though I was, I said, “No” and took a second hit. I'm not sure why I did this. My sitter said, “There’s still more in the bowl.” and for some reason I took that as, “You need to try to smoke the rest of this and hold it in as long as possible.” So I took the biggest toke I could, while my vision started reeling and I barely made it to the couch before it hit me. According to my sitter, I just sat there with my eyes open, arms up, not moving for about 5 minutes.

The experience started off like this: the colors in the room changed to deep purple and yellow and red, then 1 sliced disc of reality would suddenly cut via black lines streaking through the air, then that portion of reality separated apart like a big donut disc and that slice would start spinning independently from the rest of reality. So if you were looking at a room, the floor and ceiling above and below a bookshelf would have vertical black lines "slice" that portion of reality apart and then that section would start spinning independently from the rest of the room. The disc would start spinning faster and faster, and for some reason on an intuitive level, I knew that basically meant that time was moving differently in that slice of reality. In every slice, time was going much faster and time was going back and forth.

In one of the slices, I went back in time to when my mom was younger and I suddenly was living her life on fast-forward, experiencing every hope, dream, laugh and tear, every friend she had gained, all the fun experiences of that friendship, and the pain of it ending, parents dying, loved ones drifting away, growing older, seeing your kids become adults, being lonely, being with friends, feeling tired, feeling awake, loving people, feeling loved, hurting people and becoming angry, having others hurt me, this entire bittersweet sad experience, all at once in high-speed. It was like that episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation called "The Inner Light" on fast-forward.

This experience felt extremely nostalgic, like I had been here before and I knew where it was going. Apparently, I told my sitter "This is all your fault." The scenery of most of my mom's life in this slice of reality was set in the mountains, in a small town, with birds all about, train tracks running along side a country road, while the wind blew slightly and the power lines swayed in the summer breeze as the clouds in the sky moved on. So parts of this experience were incredibly detailed and the images flashed by so quickly that it took me hours to unpack a second of the experience and remember everything i had seen.

And this was just the beginning of the trip, then the trip started to speed up, more slices of reality started to spin apart, until I was living 1,000 lives at once on super speed. It felt like the entire world was doing somersaults and flipping over on top of itself, like I was completely aware of how quickly the earth was rotating and how fast we were hurtling through the universe. Every single day of 1,000s of people's entire lifespans were running through my body like a fire hose, I couldn't see with my eyes, I couldn't move, I had to remember to force myself to take breaths because I was forgetting to breathe, and suddenly, my friend started laughing.

I looked up at her and the lines of her face each split apart until her brain and insides were spinning around outside of her body. "How could she laugh at me while I'm going through this?" I thought. I later learned she was nervous for me and was laughing as a response to how shook I looked. She said my face went pale and I wasn’t responding to anything she was saying to me, or I was giving the shortest of words as responses and it was under great effort that I managed to get the words out.

I closed my eyes and laid back down, and I asked, "How much time has gone by?"

"5 minutes."

I thought she was lying, it felt like 10,000 years had gone by and 30 seconds at the same time. IT DID NOT FEEL LIKE 5 FUCKING MINUTES.

She said, "You should be coming down now, it's been 5 minutes."

"Oh great! That's good— noooo I'm ramping back up again!"

The world continued to spin apart, discs of eternity shooting through my mid section. I felt sick. I asked for water. I took a drink.

"Do you want something to eat?" my sitter asked.

"NO! GOD NO." just the thought of eating food while this was going on, feeling the objects of matter filling my stomach, turning into living creatures and trying to crawl out of me from the inside sounded like a bad idea to me. I took off my glasses and rubbed my face. I tried to remain calm and remember this was part of the experience and I had prepared myself for this.

I laid down, grabbed a pillow and closed my eyes. This is better. I continued to moan slowly to calm myself while lifetimes of people experiences flowed through my mind and body. I let my sitter know that I was still alive; it was mainly to let myself know that I was actually still alive while making sure she wasn't worried for me.

At one point my cat came over and started licking my arm and it was too much to deal with. Every noise, every movement in the room had ripple effects through reality, creating these black lined fissures in my perception and I couldn’t deal with it. I felt like I was going to throw up. I had a radio on in my house set to classical music and I could barely hear it downstairs and it was creating all sorts of ripples and fractures in my reality to the point that I had to cover my ears to block it out enough that I could calm down and deal with just what I was going through. “I want off, I want off” I said several times. It felt like I was on a roller coaster that was going too fast.

Another wave and I ramped back up again. I saw the world being formed as the big bang happened and the entire universe was created and saw it crumble on fast forward, I felt like I was flying through the air at 400mph. I took off my socks, they were drenched in sweat. I combed my hair back, it was also covered in sweat.

I saw the mountains of the world crumble into the ocean, as the rocks fell they turned into geometric shapes, like rows of hexagons, triangles, squares, the shapes turned into thick lines, the lines became oceans, the oceans folded over back into the seascape and the world got smaller and smaller until there was nothing left and it faded away. I witnessed the end of the entire universe.

After all of this, I came to a place in my mind's eye where time and light was folding like a fabric, yellow and blue striped fabric, the fabric folded into a geometric shape, like a hexgaon if you tried to take a sheet and fold it into a hexagon. And here was… an entity. I couldn't even look at it, it was so powerful, it felt like a bright light that you couldn't look at, but it wasn't bright to your eyes, it was projecting another kind of energy that affected your whole body and you couldn't stand before it. For lack of a better framing device, I’m going to call this entity the God of Creation, although I have no idea, it could have been my higher self or the Holy Guardian Angel Crowley refers to. I was like, “Oh fuck! Oh fuck! I did it, I’m here. I finally did it.”

I thought, "I was so arrogant to even think that I could stand before the this creature and ask to meet it." It didn't feel gendered. It felt like I had committed a great sin by thinking I want to meet this thing, as if I could order this thing around and ask him to meet me. It was profoundly disturbing and unsettling and humbling, and at the same time I feel like I only touched barely one of this creature's fingers. It was as if I asked to become enlightened, and Enlightenment itself only pushed her pinky through my body and I was overcome with life experience to the point that I thought I had made a HUGE mistake by smoking this shit.

So I was finally standing in a place where I thought I could consult the God of Creation/Higher Self/Holy Guardian Angel about anything, anything, and I totally fucking froze up. The entity said, "What do you want?" and I sat there and was like, "But I… All those people… Their experiences… I can't deal with this weight… Uh… Uh… God… Uh…" and I didn't get any fucking answers, I just sat there feeling this extreme presence until it faded into another experience. I choked.

As the high started to wind down, I started to come back to reality and realize that, yes, I was going to survive and yes, this was going to be okay. My trip lasted about 30 minutes.

<strong>2nd Salvia Trip</strong>
I tried smoking it again about 4 days later with the same sitter. I'm a grown man (32 years old) and I had to psyche myself up to smoke it again, I was that scared. The 2nd trip was much shorter, pretty odd and actually really funny. The universe started to fold over again and this time I was much more aware of the process of going through these dimensions to get to "salvia space." The best way I can describe it is feeling like you are inside of a dryer, and the world is filling over and you are like a piece of clothing in a dryer, but you push through 8 different dimensions with each flip of the dryer.

At some point, I realized I was in control, and I stopped everything and zipped up the realities, like a sleeping bag. It felt like reality was a sleeping bag, unzipped and smoking salvia is the sleeping bag folding in on itself and zipping up in a sense.

For some reason, I knew there were 8 realities I was pushing through and in the process of trying to stop going through, I zipped up one of these slices of reality wrong, and I was pretty sure I had completely destroyed one of these realities by speaking with my mouth. For some reason, I knew that had a tremendous effect on this alternate universe. The alternate universe also felt small, like it could fit in my hand. I laughed on accident, and in that process, I think I destroyed an entire civilization. For some reason, THIS WAS HILARIOUS and I busted up laughing. My sitter said I was laughing, saying, "Oh my God, I killed all those people. Ha ha ha ha!"

Ultimately, both experiences were completely insane. I feel like the net result of the 1st salvia experience was that real life feels easy now. I don't worry about bills as much, and I'm spending more time with my family and treating others better.

 

[modblot]

I also watched my sitter after I had fully recovered. She weighs about 3 times what I weigh, so she smoked 35x salvia. Her experience was utterly terrifying, she was babbling in another language for about 5 minutes. She drooled all over herself. Her vision consisted of her being in a field with a group of people and they were all running to a barn as the universe behind them was being swallowed up by a blackness. She didn't make it to the barn in time, and she got sucked into a place that basically sounded like hell. There was horrible suffering and loneliness inside the black place.

She came out of the vision completely shook and grateful she was still alive.

 

[diogenesofsinope]

Thank you Modblot for that very clear description of your experience. I will find a legal way to try Salvia.

For me smoking cannabis pales in comparison to eating it, partly because I am allergic to it in smoke form. Rick Simpson Oil is a medical product made without petro extraction and has given me insights as a side effect to healing my back. At high doses it seems as effective as many substance I have used, only 5MEO DMT is stronger.

You had a sitter which is good. For 5Meo you want a whole circle of loving people. Many people experience the complete disintegration of the veil and can remember for a time complete oneness with sentient creation. Words fail. Afterwards I have been able to meditate drug free and for moments live consciously beyond our "4D"

Would you call what you felt in Salvia Space awe? You seemed to describe separation from the powerful entity you encountered on Salvia also. <strong>That combination deserves caution.</strong>

You have been very brave and I wish I knew more people like you. But if you go deeper with a little more experienced, loving company, then you will see we are all truly one, the creator. A life long meditation practice or a fast wallop with 5meo will probably bring a person of your apparent sensitivity to this realization.

 

[diogenesofsinope]

.

 

[quietinthegarden]

Pot is awesome. A great companion to humanity. In the realm of heavier psychedelics I would have to say that mushrooms are the one for me. You need to source them from someone who is on the level i.e. genuinely well intentioned, loving, peaceful, attuned, whatever you want to call it. But more than any of the other psychedelics mushrooms always strike me as a personal entity that is interested in human well being and will meet you where you are and show you the way forward. My experience and what I've seen with other people is that mushrooms deliver a 'bad' trip when the user becomes casual or flippant in their use and stops paying attention to the lessons engendered. But if you approach it with and open heart and a genuine desire to learn a better way forward mushrooms have always been my favorite.

 

[quietinthegarden]

follow up: I'm distinguishing the mushroom trip and it's teaching from the more dramatic but (in my opinion) less relevant trips of salvia, acid, DMT that reflect an entity hell bent on ripping us from the illusions of our material life but not concerned with what that will mean to our conscious beings. I love and appreciate all psychedelics but for someone looking to explore other realms and looking for meaningful, life changing insights, that are practical more so than traumatic, I go for mushrooms all day long. In tea or in chocolate is my favorite

 

[diogenesofsinope]

Quietinthegarden, I have to ask: Have you tried Salvia, DMT, or 5MEO DMT? Or are you giving these recommendations based on a consensus from other people's experience?

I have not tried Salvia or DMT, but <strong>5MEO from the Sonora Desert Toad</strong> is a close personal friend of mine so <em>I must speak</em>.

<strong>You</strong> <em>are that entity</em> you think is hellbent to rip you off somewhere, and having met you and forgotten, well hello! Welcome. Yes it is true. Yes we are waiting for you. Take your time if you wish, but once you are here now: We are love forever. That's all that's on the other side of the curtain, friend.

But sure most people should exercise their minds with gentler things first. However, I was only a dabbler and no psychonaught before I had that medicine. Some people with certain problems should steer clear all together. The <strong>legal</strong> setting I had interviewed people first to make sure people were healthy and prepared. We sat 15 in the room and everybody had a great experience. I had the hardest time because unlike most people who stay off their feet, I got up, ran around, and started trouble for a bit. It is what I do

I have to mention that my earlier comments on cannabis had some horrible typos, and since then I listened to GC's interview of Rick Simpson, and apparently the RSO I use is probably made from a Sativa, because it is very visual.

 

[satyagraha]

Some great trip reports here. Thank you.

<blockquote>...if you approach it with and open heart and a genuine desire to learn a better way forward...</blockquote>

This is key. I prefer the word, "urge," over, "desire," but "genuine," this is key. Desire sets us up as separate from some 'thing,' desired. Urge is simply of being, and being is of the present, is what is. It comes down to the urge and being honest enough to admit that what is seemingly known might be no more than belief. When an entheogen knocks the known out of the ballpark, we face not knowing, pretty much with no way out in that immersion into present. So much to gain when stripped naked of belief. What we can take home to our Self from that is our Truth of Being, that Oneness. That <em>urge</em>, that <em>open heart</em>, that <em>genuine</em>, this is key. It <em>IS</em> Love.

Thank you all. It is a good day.

Namasté,

Satya

PS: If you please, what is the physical method of ingestion of the properties of the Sonoran toad? Just too curious, here.

 

[quietinthegarden]

I have tried salvia and DMT, though never 5MEO. Also dabbled in the LSD realm and a few other analogs in the 2c family. Salvia was my first experience with psychedelics, I can't remember exactly if it was before I'd even tried cannabis or not, but it was definitely right around the same time. I find it to be interesting in that it definitely shows you that you are fully capable of experiencing/creating whole realities that seem to be fully real but are not shared by the rest of your community. I have never gained any other insights from it beyond that. Similarly, my experience with DMT is that it is great for reminding you of the great cosmic oneness that you are a part of, it truly takes you very quickly beyond the veil into that glorious realm of infinite love and unity that is at least one of the deeper realities we so often hide from. LSD and its analogs are similar in my experience but much milder and more lend themselves to play. All great in my opinion and all things that consenting individuals should explore to whatever depth they feel is helpful.
For my money though, mushrooms have provided the most consistent and personal 'coaching' of any of these substances, and I think because of that, the insights I've gained through mushrooms have been the most meaningful and had the longest term and greatest impact on how I live my life and interact with reality. I would really like to explore some more of the whole plant entheogens (ayahuasca, peyote, iboga, etc..) because I believe that those beings are better able to meet us on the human plane and guide as where as the extracted molecular beings (THC, DMT, LSD, etc...) are less capable of relating to us and therefor can be harder to approach and harder to gain useful insights that make a lasting impact on our day to day lives. At least for a novice like myself.

How did you consume the 5 MEO? was it extracted from the frog or was the frog a part of the ritual?

 

[diogenesofsinope]

It is no longer legal here. But even when it was legal, I was sworn to secrecy. I am very sorry you are always so helpful. I cant help but yell my results from the mountain top, but the mechanism i am not at liberty to discuss. This is hippocritical and i apoligize. Let's say that is was not simply smoked, not eaten, and taken with a good group to hold space sacred led by a person well versed in formal traditional mystery schools. Many people take a dose around 8-12mgs but a healthy young man such as me was gifted 23 mg. The mechanism is very key as I understand it. Let us work to relegalize this and bring it to the light.

What you call open heart I called letting go. I did not feel emptyness after passing through but real full humaness. Of course I am working here with a fragmented ego and 2017 English.

Before the ceremony began I introduced myself to a fellow participant who was a stranger to me. He said "what does it feel like to have this thing before you?" I said "like i am about to go white water rafting on an unknown river." He said, "wow, i am a professional white water guide. I am doing this again to consider a carrer change."

I think my sort of gnostic experience is different but related to a Buddhist outlook. I am still able to attain an approximation of the state of oneness through meditation, but am a novice working through lots of fear without as much group support as I think is helpful.

Thanks for the EU experiment advice in the other forum thread Satay. You rock brother. I will try that for myself.

 

[diogenesofsinope]

Thank you Quiet. I have no experience with lab DMT or Salvia, and I can definitely imagine how a deep trip could be pure horror. Yes caution
I can only say that life is always fatal, and that my friends who went before me had great gravity in presenting me the sacrament of 5meo, but all of the experiences taken in conscious loving supported experienced setting have been very positive. Alas I can say no more than I have about the delivery mechanism.

Your observation about shared versus personal reality tells me just how like my experience your independent journey is.

I am a bit of a wild man and adventurer and your caution is correct. Forgive my enthusiasm but I want humanity and Gaia to heal up and go to through this transformation urgently.

As an aside perhaps my chemistry is a little unusual as cannabis has gotten me further out than LSD, cubensis, cyanesis, ovoids, ketamine, and MDMA.

 

[satyagraha]

<blockquote>I was sworn to secrecy. I am very sorry...</blockquote>

There is need to know, and there is curiosity. Full respect here. No worries.

<blockquote>What you call open heart I called letting go. I did not feel emptyness after passing through but real full humaness. Of course I am working here with a fragmented ego and 2017 English.</blockquote>

Funny, I am logged in at the moment because I am listening to this 'cast from the archives:
<a href="http://content.blubrry.com/thehighersidechatsplus/THC-Daniele-Bolelli-Plus.mp3">Daniele Bolelli | Taoist Philosophy, Rejecting Dogma, &amp; The Warrior’s Path</a>

Calling anything, anything, we find these limitations; the Tao that can be told...? Not ever it. I have long loved the Tao, and these days, my Advaita masters. So much of my own little tao/way led through the entheogens, having my first breakout experience the first time I smoked hashish. Gotta love those first times! I had to leave the chemical version of THC behind in my late twenties. With this body being hypoglycemic, THC appears to put me into insulin shock, which was perhaps that first hashish event's mechanism. (Before electroshock therapy, there was insulin shock therapy.) Whatever it was, there in the dimly lit quiet room alone, it was what I could only describe as a return to where I had been before birth. It was a void space, nothingness, but a recognized <em>real</em> home. I called it, "the land of the dead." There was only happiness and peace to have returned there for a time. So far as words or symbols can be used, I think of it as an NDE. Just ain't going to be able to tell that Tao, right? You just had to be there.

In my early twenties I tried every hallucinogen I could get my hands on. In my mid- and late- twenties, it was an Indian guru, and after that, more tripping. The gurus always seem to want you to be winging it without the substances. I honor my first guru, though I found I didn't have it in me to hold to his prescribed path. What I did take away from that time was the practice of 'karma yoga' (selfless service), which became the practice for 40 years. Practices, I have come to see, are great place-holders. It seemed this ADHD body/brain/mind was just not made for meditation, which was a part of that initial path which was apparently not going to work for me. Plus, any fellowship with my brother and sister devotees was tough, as the ADHD kid never really got properly socialized, and as it seemed, I was even going to be a <em>spiritual</em> misfit.

But, service was comfortable, so long as I didn't expect too much to have it appreciated, and doing selfless service is quite the feat, while any ego is present. I could only do it as well as I could do it, and that was <em>not</em> with full detachment. But, no regrets, as it <em>was</em> a great place-holder.

But there were those wonderful mushrooms to show me so much, for so many years. I live in mushroom heaven up here in the SW corner of Washington State. I never bought or sold a magic mushroom. They just come out of the ground! Peyote kicked my physical ass at 25, and I just couldn't do it, though I had access for a time.

Synthesized mescaline was my first experience after that hash (I was just 23). I had a vision of a bear and then encountered that bear (IRL), just as it had been seen in my vision. The vision didn't scare me, but that huge bear certainly did. Fortunately, I think the bear had issues about humans, and after an endless moment of the bear and I standing, facing each other, looking eye to eye, it was at last the bear who wheeled around and hauled ass.

Soon after, there came my first acid. I had been a tree drink blackout alcoholic since joining the navy at 17. I never had much tolerance for the booze, and loved the oblivion of being pickled. Upon that first taste of LSD, I saw real beauty in myself, for the first time really. My hated image of me, engendered by growing up ADHD in an age before the diagnosis even existed (beyond, "problem child"), the me that sought that merciful booze oblivion, never wanted to black out again. Then I had only to learn that acid would not be my panacea. Each trip fell short of the one before it, and in a little over a month and thirty-some hits of acid later, I was one crispy critter. I had tried to be an acid addict. Sorry, try something else.

Then came the mushrooms, and except for my one fresh Amanita muscaria overdose, never to be repeated, there were the beloved Psilocybes to carry me over so many decades. When taken in the mode of teachers, they gave so much. Taken as recreationals, they usually treated me caringly, but I was to leave recreational use mostly aside as I aged. There was a difficult lesson in taking them lightly on a couple of occasions. I learned to hear that, I guess.

I was 65 by the time there came any possibility of acquiring smokable DMT, and I was advised by experienced partakers that maybe my physical constitution would not be up to the test. It is the same concerns of having the energy for what might be called, "shamanic doses," that slowed me down a few years back, even on the wood lover mushrooms which had become my go-to trip of choice. I will be turning 70 next month, and have found my state of being to be one which I have very little desire to be messing with. Just over two years ago, in a moment of personal crisis, there was a seeing, a change of perspective which came spontaneously, without the psychedelic chemo, of that peaceful home I had seen to be before this body/mind. I see now that all the tripping, the practices, whatever, are not it, not in the sense of gaining anything that isn't what is here all along.

That void nothingness, seen when that first hash did its thing, as a vastness of being, is that in which all of this imagining takes place. The imagining doesn't stop. It just becomes recognized. Some old story of my life is all well and good. But, it is <em>only</em> a story. What was getting blown away in so many trips was <em>what is not</em>. I guess I was a very slow learner, but then, there really was nothing to learn. Except, maybe just the "letting go," to what is. Upon this <em>awakening</em> (for lack of another word) it soon dawned that I was still not prepared for this changed perspective of two years ago last October, and as grace would have it, the student was ready and teachers appeared.

So, keep that urge and that open heart. You will see the perfection hidden in everything, whether judged to be good or bad. If you allow yourself to see, you will even see the judgment. It all happens right there in front of us, all the time. All those tripping glimpses were valid. What we might call "coming down;" there is where what might not be trusted might be seen for what it is, and is not.


<blockquote>The discovery of truth is in the discernment of the false.
You can know what is not. What is - you can only be.
~Nisargadatta Maharaj</blockquote>

Well, I hope you don't mind all this, as I know I write this stuff for myself. It's just another chance to hang out in my heart.

Namasté,

Satya

 

[diogenesofsinope]

I have read your posts here several times now. It is great to have the perspective of a genuine NW Psyconaught of your vintage man. Open Heart. Awake. Yes.

Lao Tzu was one of my first non-christian forays into these matters when I was a teenager. If you had a favorite translation to recommend I think it is time to revisit that work. I always remembered his admonishment that there'd be no way to name the way in this life when I found it, and sure as shit there ain't.<strong> But my God is Love a bigger part than I expected. </strong>

<blockquote>So much of my own little tao/way led through the entheogens, having my first breakout experience the first time I smoked hashish.</blockquote>

Entheogens do help show the way. And you remember the path easier with repetition. I find it interesting that your early experience with Hash as a teacher matches with my experience that concentrated cannabis can be for some people stronger than Ketamine, Acid, MDMA, and various fungi.

Looking back up at my 5MEO dive, it looks almost like a trap door or cheating. I'm ok with cheating. I would say it was dangerous, but the "problems" it presented were all productive and feel true thru and thru.

I always see danger in life. My Korean Taoist Sun Do master frowns on drugs (and my heavy metal), but she is wonderful and powerful. She's devoted an entire lifetime to the way, and I am not 100% sure she has gotten as deep as me. There is a language barrier, and to be honest some mutual fear I think. She is very much part of a strong hierarchy and I distrust that implicitly. <em>But why should any of this be "Safe"?</em> That said, the techniques I am learning from her are useful and gentle and there was little chance that I could have stuck with her long enough to learn much with how <strong>ENERGY DENSE</strong> I was before <em>awakening.</em> Sometimes I toy with the idea I was fated to be taught by her to help her free herself from her master. I keep an open mind and remain a doubter of even doubt.

Anyhow I do know a person who's friend died supposedly related to 5MEO, but the use was way out of line with the set and setting with a loving group context.

As for frailty, my 5MEO group was purposely balanced with two very old women, in part because I was coming in with a reputation as a fighter. Some hijinks insued, but the presence of that soft feminine energy was wise. These women were in their late 70s or 80s. I do not know how healthy they were.

As an aside one of the questions I had while in the dive related to the dangers of artificial intelligence. I returned with the assurance that this new thing I had discovered, soul for lack of a better word, could never be put into or vanquished by a Box. So either that's true, or I had just interfaced with The Box. HAhahahahahlolololz. For real

Love Satya, and the rest,

Semi-politely,

Diogenes

 

[satyagraha]

<blockquote>If you had a favorite translation to recommend I think it is time to revisit that work.</blockquote>

The Gia-Fu Feng / Jane English version is the only version I have ever had. I recently found this audio book version to read along with...
Nice help for the dyslexic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACr-EGYv71k

<blockquote>...the dangers of artificial intelligence.</blockquote>

Just this morning I came across an interview with Noam Chomsky on the question of the projected AI <em>singularity</em>. Professor Chomsky was quite sure it was science fiction. While the continued doubling of information that is supposed to lead to this singularity continues, <em>so far</em>, the extreme fragility of the physical infrastructure it so depends upon must last in order to be there for it. I smile to think of such a projection of mind.

Mind depends upon consciousness, not the other way around. Our story selves are one hundred percent made up, and we <em>can</em> write one Hell of a story. <em>What fools these mortals be.</em> There is nothing to be worried about, unless... The only threat in this world is to what is false.

Namasté,

Satya

 

[satyagraha]

<blockquote>... almost like a trap door or cheating. I’m ok with cheating.</blockquote>


The spontaneous wake-up I reported above that came out of that "moment of personal crisis," that was <em>my</em> cheating (and I have often referred to it with that exact word). It was by way of the guidance of an old internet friend that I should, "remain as the witness," that was the shift in perspective I mentioned. I had not been in any serious practice, <em>earning</em> my way out of the dreaming, but right there, my made up lifetime of story identity was instantly seen. This old friend had been telling me that for years, but it was then that I found I could be that seeing, outside my believed in identity.

At that time I had recently found someone online who I just loved to hear in his videoed satsangs. I did not know what Advaita Vedanta was (even though I had read of it through Alan Watts, 45 years earlier). I did not know that was what I was hearing, or anything about it. But I was watching these videos and having my new seeing shown to me for what it was, and being cautioned as it were, how the seeing must be nurtured and protected from the reemergence of that false identity we might call ego mind. I have come to call someone "Master," not because he is my boss, but because he showed me his mastery.

It's funny, because when he tells his own story of awakening, he too says that <em>he</em> <em>cheated</em>. But soon thereafter, he too found his master, after <em>his</em> spontaneous breakout event (for lack of better words). Not everyone cheats. Some just seem to have the unshakable urge for truth and freedom. There is never a doubt that any sincere seeker will find their truth, the Truth of Oneness. I see that behind it all, psychedelics showed me enough of that Oneness that such a thirst was kindled, and this was not to be denied, despite every comedown I had ever endured.

What I relate so much to the psychedelic experience, is the come downs, the aftermaths of the journeying, no matter what the initiator had been. I now see it was the going from having a time (of any duration) of identity loss, to again being <em>something</em>. The somethings are always trapped in time. The seeing that changed everything for me was the seeing that these somethings we make of ourselves, these ideas of self, are what eclipses that indescribable Oneness seen in those peak experiences. They pull us from the timeless being, back into time, where self image is based on memories and projections.

I got something like a peak experience again by way of that shift of perspective to that of the witness, but just like after any of the trips, something was fading back to some sense of normal. I could not then see what it was. I can only call it grace to have this <em>master of being</em> to have shown up right then. Now I have found so many masters who can speak to me, as <em>the ears to hear</em> are now these ears.

Once again, writing for my Self. I must thank you for this opportunity.

I have to get out of this chair for a bit.

Namasté,

Satya

 

[quietinthegarden]

something that the whole 'cheating vs the real way' meme that's arising here brings to mind is that while we all reach the same point whether we cheat or not but after that there are 2 things that a teacher/school could offer. (for the record I'm not much of a school goer) but 'schools' can act as repositories for information and teachers are one of the most time honored routes to establishing lifelong habits of practice.

 

[diogenesofsinope]

Queitinthegarden you are quite right.

How better to learn to remedy separation than through a learning relationship? It is well neigh tautological. I also distrust any kind of spiritual school. That distrust was too deep to work around until my entheogenic awakening. Which returns us to the threadstarter <strong>Modblot's</strong> innocent question:



<blockquote>I told one of these guys, “I’m not looking for a party experience when trying salvia,” and it was like I was staring at a deer in the headlights.

Should I try salvia? What do you think about smoking pot? Anyone tried DMT?</blockquote>

The way is different for everyone Modblot, but the way has a way of giving way, eh? I think Queit has a different perspective that is to be considered. I have to admit I never approached fungi with the idea of submitting to one as a teacher. This is to be considered.

Satya says,

<blockquote>Some just seem to have the unshakable urge for truth and freedom.</blockquote>

Amen brother.

And look at how long and rough the road can be. His I think has carried him through storms that would have swamped many a boat. My boat was about sunk too before awakening. That is the way for some of us. But there is the opportunity in the 20Teens to circumvent all that and find your way before you have scraped bottom!!! Gordon White says this is the Kali Yuga, I agree and say time to step on the fucking gas pedal. From everything I have read and heard Salvia is the next best thing to 5MEO. It was Greg Carlwood's breakthrough and I have heard many similar stories. Make sure to have other experienced, initiated sitters for safety and ease.

And speaking of Gordon White he claims in "The Chaos Protocols" this initiatory experience can be had through performing the <a href="http://wizardforums.com/Thread-Chaos-Protocols-Headless-Rite-Thread">The Headless Rite</a>. This is completely legal, but many would consider it "black" magic.

You live in Portland if memory serves. I am from Oregon too. If you find the right meditation teacher and use lots of edible cannabis you might have a legal route right there.

 

[satyagraha]

Just the suggestion here that it might be best to hold zero definitions of truth and freedom. That first line of the <em>Tao Te Ching</em> should not be overlooked or forgotten. When one's cup is finally emptied... Well, you all know the drill.

My master usually shuns the terms, "teachings," or, "teacher," preferring, "pointings," as what has been called, "awakening from the dreaming," is not <em>learned</em>, but rather, <em>discovered</em>. In conversation, he will let it go when someone calls him a teacher, if that's the only way that expression of consciousness can presently proceed.

We create our worlds from nothing more than thought, through memory and projection, and we <em>believe</em> in them. This is the dreaming state, the conditioning that we all receive and accept (some, for a short period of time; some perhaps through all of Kali Yuga, and uncounted yugas beyond that). If these worlds we accept can be honestly witnessed for how real, or unreal, they are, we begin to see. As Nisargadatta said, "You can know what is not. What <em>is</em>, you can only be."

There is no <em>describable</em> Tao/Way, but <em>if</em> one wants, one can entertain the possibilities that there are express lanes. Just don't think you can know these either, mentally. Getting that cup emptied could be a good priority, if that supreme, heartfelt, urge is paramount. Do enjoy the ride with my heartfelt blessings. I am happy for no reason. Peace and joy to all. It's here, now.

<blockquote>What you are looking for, is <em>what</em> is looking.
~St. Francis of Assisi </blockquote>


Namasté,

Satya