The Cancer of Shamangineer

[fifthcolumn]

EDIT:
I would like to take this second to HUMBLY Apologize to Shamangineer for the title of this thread. I wrote it not ten seconds after I had dressed down Hisich for doing the Exact Same Thing.

It's fucking embarrassing...

I allowed the polarity I felt toward Shamangineer to blind me to my own goals. The title of this thread should have been "We Need To Have A Fucking Talk Here." I felt wronged by him and wanted to wrong him back. There are many excuses and none will suffice.

Shamangineer, I humbly apologize.






The problem with having a Shamangineer in the forum is that there is an incredible power differential between the average forum-goer and the celebrity who's got like 5 shows. Everyone is scared to speak against his most infantile of behaviors. Greg loves and speaks so highly of him, we naturally cow-tow to this overwhelming institutional force.

And he dances with glee in the deference we pay him. Laughing at us.

I have heard stories of... Gordon White? Magician? Wasn't he in these forums back in the day? I would imagine he'd be cordial and decent, and that the situation might work.

But Shamangineer abuses the power differential that this forum provides him. He feels he can shit all over it, and anyone in it, at any time. And he does. And I don't like seeing my allies shit on from height so great, they cannot fight back.

He exercises his power like Nero. Not like Gordon White. And this stifles the free exchange of everyone here.

 

[nickzeptepi]

I want to see some examples
I recall he defended himself after some ad hominen attack - like normal people might do

 

[fifthcolumn]

I want to see some examples

Nick,

That's a fair ask.

I can only give you my experience. If I'm the only one who feels it, then I should be standing here with my dick in my hand, listening to crickets. That's fair, too.


You remember when I first showed up and was big on exposing the Love/Fear dichotomy? One of the first interactions I had with Sham, he posted a rebuttal with this smug "I know everything" demeanor. And "You haven't done enough work, young man" kinda attitude. Only a little bitch needs to flex on a newbie like that.

But what was most interesting was his star wars clip. Luke berating Rey. I said to myself at the time "I am being groomed for some Master/Apprentice dynamic." It felt smarmy. Bullying.

I don't think it felt right to you or Rani, either, cause both of you jumped in right after and kinda had my back. Made me feel like there were some cool people in this place. Enough to make me wanna stay.

https://thehighersideforum.com/threads/polishing-logic-your-shining-armor.8237/



Little while later I write another post and Sham responds. But he doesn't even deign to speak to me. He just links another star wars video. I was creeped out. The master chastising the apprentice. The role he needs everyone to play.

https://thehighersideforum.com/threads/implications-of-the-love-fear-dichotomy.8248/

And this is the power dynamic in fractal nature. He knows I won't just accept everything he says, so he brings in a figure that no one can question. Yoda. Yoda carries huge subconscious weight in our minds. Who would be moron enough to question Yoda? It is the same dynamic. Who would be moron enough to question Shamangineer?



So, a little while ago this new digital tunnel rat chick posts about some internet maze she's off to spelunk. Comes back and it was a waste of time. Sham makes her feel stupid for it. So I sound off and try to make the chick feel welcome. And I realize I'm doing the exact same thing you and Rani had to do. Clean up the newbies Sham shits on.

Is that my job now, if I wanna see this forum flourish?

https://thehighersideforum.com/threads/is-this-the-mother-of-all-rabbit-holes.8649/




Personally, I think all the information you need is contained in the Trump Behind The Scenes thread.

https://thehighersideforum.com/threads/trump-behind-the-scenes.8798/

What's fascinating about it is that when I give him his last chance, he falls right back to the Master/Apprentice paradigm. It is a subconscious cue to me that if I just relax and go back to playing the role he wants, we can still be friends.

Trump Behind The Scenes is the most perfect example of his infantile and baiting behavior going unchecked. No one here will chime in and say "Sham, dude, come on. He's trying to work with you, just answer his questions." Shit, man, I don't do it either. I didn't check him when I saw him disrespect the tunnel rat. Just cleaned up after him. Like his goddamn apprentice.


Hey man, I might be the only one who feels it. If that's the case, I'll shut the fuck up and fade out.

 

[shamangineer]

 

[fenrisulfr2020]

I always got the feeling that was just his general demeanor. But this is a good example of how it can go a bit far.
We are trying to cooperate and coordinate. We are attempting to build networks, to behave without threat of punishment from on high, but because we are social animals able to unite our efforts under our own will for our own good, instead of having to be herded like livestock to have our effort stolen for the benefit of the rancher
I would expect a response showing a spirit of cooperation. With so much activity and so many shows you should model better behavior

 

[fifthcolumn]

TRANSLATION -
He doesn't have to account for his actions or explain himself to you. Chill out.


It's funny man. When you said "I need examples," I was like "Fuuuuck. I am so sick of giving energy to this Shammy Half-Wit. I don't wanna do that, man! Don't make me..."

But I thought "That's a fair ask." So I manned up and soiled myself once more in his energetic outhouse. I felt the need to respond to your fair ask.

You can't make a fair ask of Sham. This is proven in the Trump thread.

This is the power differential. He doesn't need to explain himself or answer the specific question you asked. He can dodge, misdirect, or take a dump on you - whatever he likes. AND WE WILL ALL LET HIM GET AWAY WITH IT.

And because of this power differential, the dumps he takes on you will always be bigger than the dumps you can take back.

But don't take my word for it, ask him yourself! Ask him to explain his behavior in the Trump thread. I'd be all ears.

 

[shamangineer]

TRANSLATION -
He doesn't have to account for his actions or explain himself to you. Chill out.


It's funny man. When you said "I need examples," I was like "Fuuuuck. I am so sick of giving energy to this Shammy Half-Wit. I don't wanna do that, man! Don't make me..."

But I thought "That's a fair ask." So I manned up and soiled myself once more in his energetic outhouse. I felt the need to respond to your fair ask.

You can't make a fair ask of Sham. This is proven in the Trump thread.

This is the power differential. He doesn't need to explain himself or answer the specific question you asked. He can dodge, misdirect, or take a dump on you - whatever he likes. AND WE WILL ALL LET HIM GET AWAY WITH IT.

And because of this power differential, the dumps he takes on you will always be bigger than the dumps you can take back.

But don't take my word for it, ask him yourself! Ask him to explain his behavior in the Trump thread. I'd be all ears.

You are literally calling me a cancer in the title of this thread you toxic arse. Nothing you said in the Trump threat made a damn lick of sense and mainly served to distract from the content and antagonize while feigning respect so you could play the victim immediately after. Calling for cooperation while kicking me in the nards isn't very convincing. I'm not a simpleton, a sham, or a half-wit you fucking pissant.

 

[jack_daft]

The problem with this online tug of war is that no one gets physically tired.

The eternal middle man that I am can see the merits to both of your positions. I can also see, as a reader of both of your posts, the value you each give to this forum.

Can this be resolved in a way that you both get satisfaction? Infighting is a cold barrel we press against our own skulls while the opposition doesn’t so much as lift a finger.

I don’t presume to know precisely why it is that either of you have chosen this path in life, but I can share my own. I believe without a doubt that society has lied to us. This world that we cohabitate is the result of orchestration. Through indoctrination or design, every single authority figure in my life has perpetuated this fantasy.

I don’t crave “like minded” individuals. I crave authentic thinkers that, ideally, cause me to question my own paradigm. I have looked for a place where I am not catered to, a place where I am exposed to the thoughts of people I might not otherwise meet in my life.

There is a monster, be it real or idea, that will forever try and dissuade this form of commingling. There is a system who would diminish our capacity to share our perceptions and collectively grow as a result.

If you two never see eye to eye, I will continue. I will still extract value from your contributions. And I will never have known what potential benefit I could have gathered from your eventual collaboration.

 

[nickzeptepi]

I have been wallowing around in Jung for a year or so, i gained a lot from it.
just for clarification Jung says Power is the opposite of Love. love and hate are on the same emotional release bandwidth but power over someone to control there sense of Self is the very opposite of love.

I get the sense that Sham is an older guy and you are younger 20s - there will be a dynamic between the 2 ego projections, I suggest a potential obvious one, the Sennex (wise old man) and the opposite of a younger dynamic don juan type, both of which are part of the Puer Arternus complex - maybe thats a common ground - I don't know just putting it out there. and it's not the people antagonizing each other it is the unconscious content of the shadows of the 2 archetypal energies that are present in both of your lives which sort of but heads in this forum.

I'm sure both can appropriate what is written here is not the whole being of the other person.

I thought I did a similar thing to you fifth column when you first started your threds - I recall blanket statements (from your own experience) something about, it is a fact of life we all love our mothers etc etc and I was probably quite vicious in my reply. I am a wise old man and my ego identifies to much with it, and I have in times of ego inflation written a reply that is great at inflating my ego but hardly is gracious or kind.
as an example of wise old man not relating well to his audience and the short temper and the frustration i think can be demonstrated in this video i found the other day

The other thing with Jung is what is now called the relating function (anima/animus) it's based on how we related to our parents and how they related to each other, so your statement about playing the role is a good way to adapt your relating function in how you relate to the energy sham projects at you via his messages.
how sham replies might be the way his sincere inquires were met by his parents? and he is unconsciously including this (maybe he see you as the younger man he was etc etc.

so there is lots and lots on and under the surface that is additional too what we read and how we relate to the responses.

We all can reflect, but we often cannot see our own shadows and complexes as easily as other people can see them in our own selves.

and developing our capacity to see the Self in the other, that is there, but covered by the shadow and complexes is to also to develop the Self in us. which is a feedback loop in seeing the Self in others and developing the human compassion that the dali lama talks about.

none of it is easy, spiraling down ward is easy, keeping it level and civil is well within our abilities, pushing the spiral upwards while we give a helping hand to those struggling is the hard path but the one that will give the most rewards.

I r preachy old man archetype!!

today

 

[shamangineer]

How do you cooperate with someone who insults you at every turn, and unity or agreement on what? Fifth Column hasn't actually advocated FOR anything or discussed anything of substance. In the Trump thread he is just running around shouting unity and kumbaya while grandstanding that I'm inherently devisive and using contradictory arguments to make the case. It's playground politics. He's frankly just tired of being confronted with facts that he doesn't like and treats them as personal attacks, leading to the above. This whole thread is a pity party for a chronic case of butthurt.

 

[shamangineer]

I also noticed Fifth Column liked the post where I call him a fucking pissant. Either he agrees with my argument, or more likely this is tacit acknowledgement the whole point of the thread was to literally piss me off to the point of calling a spade a spade and instigate a pile-on of rubberneckers.

 

[fifthcolumn]

I would like to take this second to HUMBLY Apologize to Shamangineer for the title of this thread. I wrote it not ten seconds after I had dressed down Hisich for doing the Exact Same Thing.

It's fucking embarrassing...

I allowed the polarity I felt toward Shamangineer to blind me to my own goals. The title of this thread should have been "We Need To Have A Fucking Talk Here." I felt wronged by him and wanted to wrong him back. There are many excuses and none will suffice.

Shamangineer, I humbly apologize. If you like, I will change the title.

 

[hisich]

I got tired of his BS & simply used the ignore function to solve the problem. Its nice no longer seeing the garbage he posts & I was amused to see that he got mad, predictably calling my ignoring of him 'cowardice'--he also insinuated I was a closet homosexual, heheheh. Of course, due to his relationship w/Greg Carlwood, he was not held to the same standard I was when I did similar to him previously. Them's the breaks I guess.

Regardless of how accomplished he may be in his field in the 'real world', I always found his socio-political-economic views to be surprisingly boring/shallow/predictable, but to each his own. He definitely has an arrogance about him that is off-putting, but maybe through his use of magic he somehow gets energy or something from all of the negative interactions he engages in here on the THC forums.

 

[fifthcolumn]

Fifth Column hasn't actually advocated FOR anything or discussed anything of substance.

Hey man, wait a minute! I just heard two swinging dicks pipe up and say maybe I had a point or two. Why don't their opinions count?

 

[fifthcolumn]

I always got the feeling that was just his general demeanor. But this is a good example of how it can go a bit far.
We are trying to cooperate and coordinate. We are attempting to build networks, to behave without threat of punishment from on high, but because we are social animals able to unite our efforts under our own will for our own good, instead of having to be herded like livestock to have our effort stolen for the benefit of the rancher
I would expect a response showing a spirit of cooperation. With so much activity and so many shows you should model better behavior

Fen,

Gutsy move, bro. That took balls.

Just got one question for you, man.

If you were Greg, and Shamangineer was behaving this way in the forums you built, would you wanna know?

Like, does it rise to the level of possibly impacting his bottom line - business-wise?
Does it rise to the level of possibly impacting the Cause?
Do you think he's the type of guy who would look at this and say "Yeah, fine. What's the big deal?" Would he care?

Cause it honestly fucks with my head, man. I kinda love Greg. That voice makes him my little brother, giving me the inside scoop. I feel protective of him. I feel protective of the things he's built. I kinda wanna kick the shit outta people who would sabotage him.

Sham's right. I am arguing NO course of action. We should talk about this amongst ourselves, first. I'd much prefer not to hafta hurt The 'Wood. But what hurts him more? Action or inaction? I don't fucking know, man.

If you got an opinion here, I'm all ears.

 

[fifthcolumn]

The problem with this online tug of war is that no one gets physically tired.

The eternal middle man that I am can see the merits to both of your positions. I can also see, as a reader of both of your posts, the value you each give to this forum.

Can this be resolved in a way that you both get satisfaction? Infighting is a cold barrel we press against our own skulls while the opposition doesn’t so much as lift a finger.

I don’t presume to know precisely why it is that either of you have chosen this path in life, but I can share my own. I believe without a doubt that society has lied to us. This world that we cohabitate is the result of orchestration. Through indoctrination or design, every single authority figure in my life has perpetuated this fantasy.

I don’t crave “like minded” individuals. I crave authentic thinkers that, ideally, cause me to question my own paradigm. I have looked for a place where I am not catered to, a place where I am exposed to the thoughts of people I might not otherwise meet in my life.

There is a monster, be it real or idea, that will forever try and dissuade this form of commingling. There is a system who would diminish our capacity to share our perceptions and collectively grow as a result.

If you two never see eye to eye, I will continue. I will still extract value from your contributions. And I will never have known what potential benefit I could have gathered from your eventual collaboration.

Jack,

I'm tired already, brother.

My perspective might not be pointed nobly enough right now to share your vision of collaboration. But I could envision some future peaceful coexistence if the power dynamic were addressed and the behavior ceased.

Because that's what bugs me the most. Isn't this forum about a shared distaste for those who are given power and then abuse it?

But if Sham were to say, be forced to be "Curator of Newbs" for a year... You know, just act kind and welcoming... Maybe even deferential and supportive, here and there... I think it would go a long way to showing that he understood what he did wrong and was working to mend fences.

You're right, man. This shit is heavy. But we could make a game of it, have some fun. For the next 6 months the only posts Sham's allowed to make are positive and supportive ones. Shit, if he played this game like a good sport, I would totally vote to give him another chance.

One other thing, man.

Do you think Greg's the type of guy who would want to know about this shit? You think he'd care?

 

[fifthcolumn]

I also noticed Fifth Column liked the post where I call him a fucking pissant. Either he agrees with my argument, or more likely this is tacit acknowledgement the whole point of the thread was to literally piss me off to the point of calling a spade a spade and instigate a pile-on of rubberneckers.

Wrong again, bro. The reason I liked your post was because there was no Love button. I loved your post, man.

I am naturally predisposed to things that prove my point.

Do you know what pissant means?

 

[shamangineer]

Wrong again, bro. The reason I liked your post was because there was no Love button. I loved your post, man.

I am naturally predisposed to things that prove my point.

Do you know what pissant means?

Yes, it means you are insignificant, a very small person. I said it because as I stated before you have brought up no real argument, nothing of significance, just petty sleights that you have already done worse versions of yourself. All of the insults listed immediately before calling you a fucking pissant were slurs you had used against me, some in this very thread.

If you are determined to go crying to Greg citing the Shamangineer cancer thread as the reason why I am such a horrible viscous person knock yourself out. It's frankly pretty embarrassing to be pulling that shit as a grown-ass man on an internet BB. I seriously doubt Greg has any interest in breaking up troll-fuelled flame-wars over petty grievances.

I'm sorry if I don't run around blowing butterflies up everyone's ass on the boards, but I have a life. I drop info here and there if something interests me. but I'm not here to coddle every conspiracy theory no matter how unfounded or foolish, I'm here to provide my perspective. If nobody cares to listen, fine.

But if you want to metaphorically kick me in the nuts for it, insult me, and even go on a half-assed campaign to get me removed from the boards I'm going to get a bit pissed off with your incessant bullshit and call out your pissant antics every step of the way.

 

[fifthcolumn]

as I stated before you have brought up no real argument

Sham, your repeating this doesn't make it so.

Why don't Fen or Jack's opinions count, man?

 

[shamangineer]

Sham, your repeating this doesn't make it so.

Why don't Fen or Jack's opinions count, man?

You can't even frame a question without it being an attack, this is literally how you ask questions. Just like a bitchy little pissant. You are basing this attack on a lack of information, which makes it inherently bullshit.

I generally agree with Fen and Jack's statements, it would be nice if people could be more cooperative. It's how to get there where people disagree, case in point above.